New PC Overheating

[joebeaven]

Hi,

I recently put together my first PC using the components listed below. It now starts up OK, but there seems to be a problem with it overheating. All the components get extremely hot and today the screen went blank and it started making a very loud noise so I switched it off. Fortunately I was able to start it up again, but I decided to shut it down straight away before I had other problems. Before that the DVD player was causing problems as sometimes the screen would flicker and go black and when I took the disc out that was extremely hot. The hard drives also seem particularly hot. I can only touch them for a few seconds before I have to take my finger away.

Components:
Processor - Intel Pentium 4 2.8 GHz S478 533 FSB 1MB Cache
Motherboard - Asus P4P800S-E
Graphics Card - Nvidia GeForce4 4600 Ti (128mb) AGP
Case - Jou Jye JJ-350D (12V) (350W Max) (Designed for Pentium 4)
1st Hard Drive - Deskstar 180GB
2nd Hard Drive - Deskstar 250GB
DVD Drive - Plextor PX-708A
RAM - 512 MB DDR SDRAM PC3200 400 Mhz 512MB 184
Floppy Drive - Alps Electric

Please could someone suggest what the problem might be and how I could fix it?

Thanks,
Joe

[LooseChippings]

Are all the fans working?

Have you left gaps between components to allow air flow between them?

Are IDE Cables tied back to allow good airflow?

Try running the system with your Slave Drive and DVD Drive disconnected and see how it runs then reconnect them one at a time and run the system for a while.

[joebeaven]

The fans are working but the airflow isn't really that good. It runs OK with the top removed, although the hard drives, DVD player and video card still run pretty hot. I'll get some more fans for it. Do you think a better quality PSU would help as well?

[LooseChippings]

Originally posted by joebeaven
Do you think a better quality PSU would help as well?

The PSU generates a lot of heat but that shouldn't normally affect the system temp because the PSU is usually high in the case and has its own cooling system.

What I have dones is ...

Cut several large holes in the top of the case to allow hot air to escape.

Placed several fans in the sides of the case blowing cool air towards system components.

Placed gauze filters cut from an air conditioning unit inlet filter over the fan inlets to keep the dust level down.

The main thing is to get hot air out, natural leakage in the system case will allow quite a lot of cooler air into the large void, this is then heated by the components and rises up the case and out of the holes at the top.

The tents used by the nomadic tribespeople in the middle east have used a very similar system for thousnds of years and it works!

[joebeaven]

Thanks, I'll try doing those things too. Do I need to place gauze over the holes in the top as well?

[LooseChippings]

That depends whether anything can fall into the casing, mine is slotted under a desk with about 3 inches between the top of the case and the bottom of the desktop so I don't have that problem.

If anything can fall in you are probably best off putting some fine wire mesh on the inside of the case top to stop anything falling in. Try to restrict the outward airflow as little as possible.

[Rich A]

From what you describe it sound like your CPU is over-heating. If you are not over-clocking and just running a straight forward configuration you shouldn't need to start cutting holes in your box.

I would look at your CPU installation. Did you use a good quality thermal paste between the die and the heak sink? Did you use only enough to give a very thin coat? (too much is bad) What kind of CPU cooler are you using? What does your BIOS say the temps are ??

Run the thing for a while, then re-boot and get into the BIOS and check the temps. CPU at 40 to 50 after having run a while is within limits.

[joebeaven]

Hi Rich,

Thanks for your help, but the CPU seems to be OK. I've downloaded a program called MBM 5 which shows the CPU and MB temperatures to be within the normal range at all times. (It's currently 47 for the CPU and 39 for the MB).

Having said that, I don't know anything about thermal paste. I just installed the CPU and attached the fan to the top as it said in the instructions. It didn't mention anything like you describe.

Thanks,
Joe

[Rich A]

Originally posted by joebeaven
Hi Rich,

Thanks for your help, but the CPU seems to be OK. I've downloaded a program called MBM 5 which shows the CPU and MB temperatures to be within the normal range at all times. (It's currently 47 for the CPU and 39 for the MB).

Having said that, I don't know anything about thermal paste. I just installed the CPU and attached the fan to the top as it said in the instructions. It didn't mention anything like you describe.

Thanks,
Joe

47 for the CPU is okay. Could be lower (my over-clocked AMD 3000 running at 3400 runs about 45) But your figures are certainly within safe parameters. But this brings up another question I have. If your CPU and case temps are always OKAY, then what's the problem? Hard drive CAN get very warm to the touch. CD's also can get very warm. Especially if you are burning a CD or a DVD.

You can get your HD and CDs cooler by making sure they have proper air flow across them. I'm more worried about the actual problem you are having .. the screen going black and such. The 39 degrees (your mother board which is kinda the air temp in the box) is very good. If your hds and/or CD/DVD devices were really too hot that mobo figure would be much higher. I think you have some other problem. Maybe a voltage problem ??

About the CPU and heatsink. Most CPUs come with pre-attatched tape-like thermal conductors glued to the bottom of the heat sink. They do this to INSURE that you have some kind of heat transfer help between the CPU and the heat sink. If they didn't do that a lot of "newbies" might just stick them together with NO heat transfer thermal stuff. That could fry your CPU withing seconds of turning it on. All you do is pull off the covering to expose the tape and then stick it to the CPU. This is okay for most applications.

But if you want to get the best heat flow, it's better to use a good thermal paste (like something they sell in a tube called "Artic Silver") However your's is working okay so I wouldn't mess with it. One of the purposes of the tape or paste is to provide more contact between the metal of the CPU case and the heat sink. Applying a very thin coat of paste helps to fill in the tiny imperfections and makes for a good tight heat bond between the two surfaces. People even get that wrong and some guys gloop a ton of the stuff on the heat sink. To work properly you just put a drop on and smooth it out over only the die portion of the CPU until you have a very thin covering.

If you are thinking of removing that tape in the future to go the thermal paste route, be very carefull. It's hard to get off once it's been in use. People use a knife to scrap it off but if you are not careful you will scratch the surface, which will hurt the final heat transfer. I use a very sharp knife to peel it off, then clean with alcolhol or some other cleaning solution. Then brush it with a very fine steel wool. Then blow it clean and make SURE there are no little bits of steel wool left anywhere. This is for the heat sink end. For the CPU end, you can just wipe that clean in most cases.

Can you describe the "noise" it made when the screen when black?

[joebeaven]

Thanks for the tips on the CPU. Mine's still working fine, but I'll try to remember all that for next time.

The noise was like a continuous, low pitched buzzing noise. It was very loud. Much louder than the fans. The screen would flicker and scroll and make clicking noises before going blank.

Afterwards the Motherboard temperature was OK, but the graphics card was extremely hot. I checked it's fan and that seemed to be working alright.

The first time the screen went blank, I was playing a DVD. It worked for a few minutes and then the screen flickered and scrolled and went black and when I took the disc out it was extremely hot.

I restarted after that and the computer worked OK for a bit and I then had the same problem, without watching a DVD this time. I took the top of the case off again and it's been working OK since then, but I would like to be able to put the case together as soon as I can.

[Rich A]

Wow, sounds really strange.

I still don't think the DVD disc temp is anything to get worried about. It's normal for it to get pretty warm. The key to all this is the mother board and CPU temps you are getting which are normal. Don't forget, that DVD drive has a LASER that is hitting that disc. Every disc I take out of my DVD drive is usually warm after it's been reading a while. If I remember correctly I think a DVD-ROM having been read for a while might be warmer to the touch than a CD-ROM read in a CD drive.

It almost sounds like you have something hitting one of the fans? Or a fan going bad. I would look at your video card. Maybe it has it's own fan. Some of the more higher speed fancy video cards have fans installed on their graphics chip.

If that fan were possibly going bad, the result could be noise (fan bearings etc) and the video card's chip over-heating and finally the video display going bonkers. Make sure that area is clear of wires and cables. Maybe when you put the case on, some wires got moved around slightly and were hitting that fan. Or you could have a big flat cable (if you are using that type for the IDE drives) laying across it, blocking the flow. When you took the case off, you cleared the blockage.

With the case off, watch that fan while it's running. It's much smaller than the rest of the fans in the box, so if it were going bad or a wire were hitting it, the sound would seem at a higher pitch than what the other fans would make.

I really wouldn't like to see you start cutting holes in the box and adding all kinds of fans .. I really don't think you have a heat problem based on the temps you are reporting.

BUT if the video card chip had a heat problem or had something blocking or hitting it's fan, you'd have something pretty similar to what you are describing.

Lastly if if you have the empty space and you have another card right next to the Video card slot, try moving it over one. If it's an AGP video card make PCI slot #1 empty. Or if a PCI video card make the next PCI to it empty. This will allow the video card's fan to sample more of the cooler air. Good luck .. I'm all outta ideas.

[joebeaven]

The DVD temp really was seriously hot. I could literally only hold the disc for a few seconds or I would have got blisters. The video card does haave it's own fan which is woeking fine, however I have got a USB 2.0 card right next to it which I suppose could be causing a problem. I'll move it over a bit. I've just sent for a PCI extractor fan which I think I'll put next to the graphics card to help the airflow some more.

[Rich A]

Originally posted by joebeaven
The DVD temp really was seriously hot. I could literally only hold the disc for a few seconds or I would have got blisters. The video card does haave it's own fan which is woeking fine, however I have got a USB 2.0 card right next to it which I suppose could be causing a problem. I'll move it over a bit. I've just sent for a PCI extractor fan which I think I'll put next to the graphics card to help the airflow some more.

What brand DVD drive is it? Do you remember before installing it, if it had it's own fan on the back? Some DVD ROMs and burners have a very small fan on the back of it's own case. Some have a "place" for a fan but no fan. And some are completely fan less.

You know I never really tried touching a CD or DVD. I only grab them with my fingers between the hole and edge. But even there I feel heat. I've got an 8x DVD burner and after it's finished burning a full disc the disc itself is quite warm. In your case it's only reading and not burning so I doubt it would be as hot.

Take a peek into the box and look at the back of the DVD drive and see if there is a fan there.

[joebeaven]

It's a Plextor PX-708A. It doesn't appear to have a fan on the back. I think it needs one though. Someone recommended I get a bay fan to fit underneath it, so I've sent for one of those.